There is a lot of Russian and Chinese money behind Russian music, which is why it is so difficult to counteract its influence despite the war, says Victoria Polyova, a composer and winner of the Taras Shevchenko National Prize of Ukraine.
Poleva is one of the most successful contemporary composers in Ukraine. Her works are performed at the world’s leading concert venues. And the most prestigious American cultural centres, including Carnegie Hall and the Kennedy Center, commission Poleva to compose music, including music about war.
She composed her first piece about the invasion, Psalm of David 90, in Kyiv, amid deadly cannonade in March-April 2022. The second was ‘Bucha: Lacrimosa’, which was performed at Carnegie Hall in May this year.
In New York, Victoria Polyova spoke to Voice of America correspondent Iryna Solomko about writing music during the war, the influence of Russian music, life abroad, and her long-awaited return home.
Iryna Solomko, Voice of America correspondent: Victoria, since the beginning of the war, this is the third time that your works will be performed at Carnegie Hall. This is the third time you’ve performed a symphony that you wrote specifically for Carnegie Hall. Tell us about this collaboration.
Victoria Polyova, composer, winner of the Taras Shevchenko National Prize of Ukraine: This is a version written specifically for Carnegie Hall. I added a finale to the main version of the symphony, which changes the meaning of the whole work.
The symphony is called The Bell. And today I was thinking: what is a bell to me? I want to convey the heartbeat of the whole world through the bell. That is, it is a bell that beats somewhere inside the world. And this is very important to me. And then, when the bell stops ringing, we have to feel what the silence says. And behind the silence is the main voice – the voice of God.
I.S.: You reacted so sharply and quickly to the war in your works. In the first three or four months, you wrote two powerful works – the first one on the 90th Psalm of David, and the second one, Bucha Lakrimosa. In your previous interviews, you said that you wrote them in the midst of the events because you were in Kyiv at the time. You live near a military hospital and saw all those horrors. I ask this because I know that a lot of musicians, poets, writers were simply mute during those first six months or a year. They had no place for creativity. And you are the opposite.
VP: First of all, I’m generally very active. But then this special focus appeared, I had to do something. I realised that I had to do my part. And the 90th Psalm, which is a talisman, is a folk tradition incantation. I felt that I had to let it out into the world. To activate this protective function for our girls and boys through this psalm.
I.S.: It was the first work. And Bucha?
V.P.: I was driving through Bucha, and Russian tanks were coming towards me. I saw it all. And when I saw the photographs of what happened there, I felt it very strongly. I couldn’t help but react. Music is my reaction to the events.
I.S.: You said that when you were writing, you felt that ‘the ashes of Bucha were knocking on your heart’. How was this piece written in general? After all, this is an extremely terrible page in the history of modern Ukraine, and music should still bring some hope and light. Did you manage to find this light in this terrible topic?
VP: Most likely not. There are things that are connected to my feeling of these photographs that I saw. I wanted to convey how the souls of the people who died rise. There are such motifs there. I wanted to show the Bucha that I remember: blooming, a kind of paradise. Then it all collapses, and there is nothing beautiful or tender. And then everything is scary.
I.S.: Would it be fair to say that your works are now performed more abroad than in Ukraine?
V.P.: They are performed often, indeed. I can’t say that much more. It just became more noticeable.
I.S.: But you can definitely be called one of the most successful contemporary Ukrainian composers. You made a name for yourself abroad long before the full-scale invasion. To what extent did this help you to spread this new music of yours about the war?
V.P.: It has and still does. Nothing really helps me.
Obviously, during a war, a tragic topic attracts more attention. And Ukrainians are perceived through this prism, through suffering, through pain. Therefore, there is perhaps a little more interest in such works.
By the way, I have quite a few works written in 2010-2020 that are now becoming more relevant. Because this topic has already been raised in them. That is, it is a premonition of war. It was all already there. As an artist, I felt that something was coming. Something scary and black.
I.S. How did the composers’ community react to the war in general? Did you manage to unite, as writers did, for example, to actively talk about the war on various Western platforms?
V.P.: I’m a very independent person, it’s hard for me to speak for anyone. But I see young people coming together, not only in Ukraine, but also here in the US. I mean, young people are really doing a great job. As for the older generation, I think we are much more individualistic. Everyone goes their own way and does what they think is right.
I.S. Nowadays, the theatres and the Philharmonic in Kyiv are overcrowded, and it’s hard to buy tickets. Why do you think Ukrainians are now rallying around culture, music, and creativity?
V.P.: It’s true. Extremely important things are happening in Ukrainian culture right now. And this is absolutely clear. We all have to oppose death with something. And culture is what moves life forward. And we unite around life, not death. That’s why people are more and more interested in culture.
Besides, it is also protection. When people go to a concert, they feel protected by the music. It’s a living process that surrounds you. Music seems to embrace a person, to give them a sense of protection.
I.S.: You lived through the beginning of the war in Kyiv, and then left for Switzerland. Have you returned to Kyiv or do you continue to live in Switzerland?
V.P.: I’m still in Switzerland, but I’m coming back to Kyiv in two weeks. I decided that this way I will be more real. I will do what is needed now, what is relevant, and what I want to do for my people. I am very grateful to Switzerland, but I am a tourist there. I have to live at home. This is very important to me.
V.P.: What other topics of this war have touched you?
IS: For the Kennedy Centre in Washington, I wrote a piece (it was their suggestion) called Turn the River, which is based on the Floating Duck. This is also my action, like the 90th Psalm, because I turn this river on which the kacha floats. This river carries it to death, and I turn it in music, and it floats to life.
I.S. There is an opinion that the influence of Russian music is still very powerful in the world, despite the war and the campaigns against performing works by Russian composers and the boycott of musicians who support the war and Vladimir Putin. Do you feel it?
V.P.: Yes, Russian music is still present. And this is understandable, because programmes have been formed and are functioning. It is a very long way to go for Ukrainian music to reach the same level. This is actually a very difficult question, because there is a lot of Russian and Chinese money behind Russian music.
To make this happen, we need to create programmes at the state level that will enable Ukrainian music to function at the highest level in the world. Many countries have done this. The French did it, the Poles did it, the Germans did it…
Culture needs support. This is an extremely big problem. Winston Churchill, I think, said it well. When he was told that it was necessary to cut funding for culture during the war, he replied: ‘Then why are we even at war?’
I.S.: But what is your position on whether Ukrainians can perform alongside Russian artists?
VP: At first, I had a very tough position. I couldn’t stand their presence at all. I felt sick when I heard the Russian language. But there are adjustments. Because there are people who have Russian roots and strongly support Ukraine. I know them, they are our friends and brothers-in-arms. So I will not divide people by nationality, because this is Nazism.
As for performing alongside Russian music, I already have this experience. I refused all the time, but now Shestakovich will sound next to me.
At the same time, I have an absolutely clear position on renaming the music academy. It should be named after Lyatoshynsky.
I.S.: In one of your interviews, you said that culture cannot be cancelled, and you also gave the example of the composer Wagner, who was associated with Nazism. And now his music is performed at leading venues around the world. This means that Russian music will remain. What should Ukrainians do then?
VP: We shouldn’t be close to Russians. We cannot be brought together. Because we are people at war. And this is a very bad tradition that has appeared now. I’ve been offered so many things: Let’s do a concert together and make friends on stage… The war has already driven us apart. We won’t be together for many, many years.
But what will happen in a hundred years? It’s hard to say. There is a niche, it is filled with Russian music, performers, composers. And it will exist.
IS: In 2014, you said that you felt truly Ukrainian in yourself. How did this manifest itself and how has it changed in ten years?
VP: I felt very proud of Ukraine at that time. It was not just my experience. My daughter and I felt that it was an honour to be Ukrainian, that it was a blessing to live here.
We then switched to the Ukrainian language. And I want to be part of the Ukrainian movement. And I’m coming back to do that.
I.S.: How do you assess the process of decolonisation that Ukrainian culture is going through now?
VP: Again, it’s the youth. They bring renewal. They already distinguish and understand where Ukrainian culture is purely Ukrainian and where it is a ‘soviet splinter’. The process is ongoing. It is extremely deep and important. Everything will happen, but we need to end the war so that the forces that are going to fight return.
I.S.: What kind of Ukraine will emerge from this war?
V.P.: I would like to say that it will be much stronger. This is a terrible war of attrition, so there will be fatigue. And the reconstruction will be very difficult. Because how many men died, how many people were injured, how many hearts were broken… This cannot be expressed in terms of courage or endurance. It’s a huge, terrible complex that we get, even if we are completely victorious. It’s not going to be easy. We have to get a lot of time to rebuild, including rebuilding our consciousness. Because we are all traumatised.
I.S.: Is your music changing, does it give you a sense of victory and light?
V.P.: It is already somewhat felt. And even that symphony I was talking about at first, it was tragic from beginning to end. And now there is a small finale, which is completely different. It’s about returning to reality, to a life that flows and rejoices. Maybe it’s naive, but I wanted to do it that way…
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